Disclaimer: the following flies in
by phil on Monday Mar 31, 2003 6:33 PM
religion creation, secular religion
Disclaimer: the following flies in the face of religion, God, etc.
I need a God or some God construct. I'm a staunch atheist. I always envy those people who have a belief in God because they are so much more calmer than me. Crap can happen to them and everything's okay because "God is watching" them.
The key is, create a religion or some substitute for yourself that doesn't violate the truths that you believe in, lack of God, abstract mathematical origin, and Law of Accelerating Returns, etc..
Create symbols that evoke the same emotional responses.
List of emotional responses:
- "God is watching me"
- "I pray to God at night for certain things"
- "Before meals, I give thanks to God"
- "God has a plan"
- "God loves me"
- "We are created in God's image"
- "We implement God's will on Earth, that's what we do"
- "God will take care of things"
- "God is on our side"
Okay, let's see, equivalent emotional response
- "God is watching me" = X ensures well-being
- "I pray to God at night for certain things" = I can look to B for hope
- "Before meals, I give thanks to God" = Positive things in life derive from C
- "God has a plan" = There is a secret unity in D
- "We are created in God's image" = We are composed of elements of F
- "We implement God's will on Earth, that's what we do" = We should work toward plan G
- "God will take care of things" = Things outside of my control are executed by H
- "God is on our side" = Support is derived from J (skipped I for confusion).
- "There is life after death" = Something positive occurs after K
- "I look to God for answers" = L helps me make decisions
People are pretty cool without having a particular doctrine or dogma, so I don't need a Jesus construct. Believing in God was enough for Voltaire. If it's good enough for Voltaire, it's good enough for me. I also don't need a heaven construct or moral framework or Satan, I take care of those things on my own.
Like some parts of religion were designed by our desire for certain things. Other things are spandrels that just managed to perpetuate because they always accompany civil and therefore successful societies.
Something about being a person. I can't say, "Thank you Pythagorean Theorem for the unity you've blessed us with." There needs to be an agent of some kind. Something about having a person, or "being" friend that's there with you, you can relate to it more, and since people are the only thing that "have" intention in our view, you know.
so, let's see.
Where do all the good things that happen to me come from?
I'd say it's history, history has provided most of positive things. In The Pianist, they brought up the historical imperative, or that good luck is the way of the world. Like history, certain patterns, they repeat. Well, simple patterns, like food, food will always be there, I can count on that, just historically that's always been. Or that there will be people, or that there is sunlight, you know. Somehow, I can place my faith in history, past perpetuates in the future. No guarantee, and there's no guarantee that God'll put everything good for you, but you can take solace in it. You should, anything 99.9% should be truth anyways.
C = Some historical statistical principle character to ensure good things will happen
What ensures my well being? Well, it's mostly me. But this is a non-self spirit. More of my impetus, my emotion. Where did my emotions come from? Ego, superego, Id, etc.. My instincts, I kind of want to say my DNA. My programming, my human essence, just my nature, self survival of sorts. To humanize it, sort of, look to a character that represents survival instinct rule in everybody
X = survival instinct, the me gene will keep me well
Where can I look to or what can I look to for hope. There is a tendancy that if you want something, somehow somewhere along the line, it just happens. The multiplicity and complexity of solutions to problems just seem to float around in this connected world. If I have a problem now, eventually, I'll find a way, a solution to it. More of an implication of the existence of things like time multiplied by the tremendous combinatorial explosion of general activity and events in our life. I don't want to say survival instincts here.
B = complexity multiplied by time provides hope for things we want.
What do I look to for a guide, well your emotions and passions, is the best way to find the answers, look "within" as they say.
L = Our emotions can serve as a guide
What takes care of outside of us? Who runs the show for everything else in the world or things that we don't directly control. I can combine this with the plan thing and the unity thing.
Secret unity to everything. Thank you Kurzweil, law of Accelerating Returns. We're all working toward some vague accelerating order thing. we don't know EXACTLY how it works, but by tapping our emotions we can figure it out. But that'll be L
D = G = H = Secret Law of Accelerating Returns unifies a plan of everything, hard for us to access, but it exists, and that's all that matters.
God is on your side? Well, it should be that Truth is on your side. So some symbol for truth.
J = Some Truth things gives us faith in ourselves that God is on our side so to speak
Ooh, life after Death. Well, the africans have this thing that if you die, your spirit and memory lives on. Everything you touch and affect does it someway permanently change, and you cannot leave the earth without permanently changing it somehow. Every mark is somehow made by you. So, it's like running your fingers through the clay of time. Or rather your mere existence etches something permanently in the 4-dimensional cone that is our life.
K = 4-dimensional cone etching takes care of permanence and life after death
That more or less covers it. I'm sure there's things I've left out, but once we create the actual characters, I'm sure we can extend them. I'm kind of thinking of making like 2-3 characters. Some are just kind of exclusive of each other, such as 4D etching and law of accelerating returns, so they need separate figures. I kind of like how the Ancient Greeks had multiple Gods. It worked when such a theory was plausible. Now, well, all the theories I've presented above, I believe those on faith anyways, might as well attach a character so I have something to pray to, and to remind myself of the truth of these faiths that I hold.... because, sometimes, I forget.
I always intended this to be published, but keeping the desire to publicize this kind of put a constraint on free thinking. Well, I did a compromise. Kind of scrawled and turned off all the strive-for-attention thingy that I kind of have generally on when I'm blogging. But I've also revised and organized things post-splurge in order to make things more shareable.
Next step, since this was big enough as it is, is to actually put some thought into naming these characters. Their name can't be God or over-soul. I haven't heard of any good constructs before, although, with the Internet and things these days, I bet somebody has come up with them. It won't take long, half the fun is in making them up on your own, especially since it'll be well personalized.
Whee! Side note: I'm celebrating kind of. I've always had, before I baptised myself Catholic and after High School History Class when I became agnostic, this general "blahness" about me. It's not because I have nothing to do, or other crap. But I think man reached a certain point 10,000 years ago where the capacity of his brain required that he had some belief in some over-arching superpower greater than him or he would be likely to commit suicide or lose track of the real world. So yes, if this works, it'll be an end to the "blahness" !
Uh, human arrogance pervades. I feel arrogant with what I'm doing, somehow. Yet, I must do it. Well, let's see the obligitory cautionary things:
a) Only base it on truths you believe in.
b) Don't create any categorical imperatives
That should be good enough. I hope/think/experiment
Manning said on November 12, 2003 8:29 PM:
I'd have to make one nuiance.
All of our truthes are fictions. We cannot hope to rationally choose our truthes. But. Create your truthes like an author of a great book. Chapter I ... Chapter MXXIV ... - a stay-awake all-night- best-book -you've -ever -read page turner.
Everything else will follow.
Anand Patel said on December 20, 2003 7:35 PM:
As a fellow athiest I noticed you've left creationism and the general thought that god is perfection out of your psuedophilisophical equation conversions...something I thought you'd like to sketch in...
Mrs_Penney said on March 9, 2004 4:03 AM:
I have to say your self made religion ideal would appear to be just that....self made.
"The key is, create a religion or some substitute for yourself that doesn't violate the truths that you believe in, lack of God, abstract mathematical origin, and Law of Accelerating Returns, etc.."
You explained religion quite well, because religion is about people, not about God nor does it have anything to do with the Salvation of the Passion of the Christ who came, that is Jesus Christ the anointed one, the holy one. He is the truth, the way, and the life, and if you don't have HIM then there is no truth in you, only darkness, and my friend, there is LIFE in Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God who willfully came to give His life as a sacrifice for YOU my friend to give YOU life and life more abundantly.
Truths, well truth is associated with constancy, permanence, faithfulness, and reliability. God is above all true, that is REAL and RELIABLE.
You base your religion on yourself, when in fact that is the first place of falsehood because it isn't about you, it's all about HIM, the Christ, the holy one who came to give YOU life my friend.
One last thing I will leave with you, is this, His words, Written In Red,
Revelations 22:11 And behold, I am coming quickly, and my reward is with Me, to give to everyone accourding to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.
If you want to make your own religion, start with the BIBLE, for in the words of Jesus Christ and the Word inspired by GOD Himself, you will find TRUTH. When you find the truth, the truth will set you free from the disbelief and self-reliance that your "religion" brings. Oh and remember, we all will stand before Him one day and confess that JESUS IS LORD, whether you believe it or not doesn't matter, it's settle already in the Heavens without your approval, but with God's approval.
I pray for mercy upon you and all those who rely on "self" and hedonism to bring TRUTH. The only real and one truth is Jesus Christ and His Gospel and anyone who would preach differenct is false, and whose name will be blotted out of the Lamb's book of life and will have eternal damation.
Don't be fooled by your own religion, because you too will stand one day and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, whether you want to or not, because then, you will be able to rely on your "self-religion" you will be under submission to the God of Creation, the one who gives your breath each day to breathe and because of HIS mercy you are still allowed to be in this life at this time.
God's mercy be upon you and may the Truth of His Word set you free from this falsehood of beliefs that you call "religion".
Philip Dhingra said on March 9, 2004 2:06 PM:
I don't foolishly believe in a religion propped up by my "self" anymore than I foolishly believe in a religion propped by other fallible humans. The Bible has been handed down by so many careless hands, people who were manipulative, evil, thoughtless, amoral, etc.
My religion asserts the same truth behind the inner machinations of other religions: that it merely satisfies some neuron configuration patterns in the head that may or may not provide some positive psychological benefits, especially by assuaging confusion regarding ontological questions, such as our origin and our purpose,
If you were born elsewhere, you would believe the Koran as feverently as you believe in the Bible. Since where you were born is a matter of luck, then your choice of a book of worship is arbitrary. Because it is arbitrary, it's not worth taking seriously.
So don't throw the Bible at me unless you can back the Bible.
Rej Dhingra said on March 11, 2004 12:07 AM:
"I pray for mercy upon you and all those who rely on "self" and hedonism to bring TRUTH. The only real and one truth is Jesus Christ and His Gospel and anyone who would preach differenct is false, and whose name will be blotted out of the Lamb's book of life and will have eternal damation."
uhm.... yeah... So I'm sure you just saw The Passion of the whatever.... Its funny how a movie was made to commemorate your "bible" im sure god loves all of his versions of the bible... The movie one, the picture bible, and the other millions of translated VERSIONS there are in the world. I'm sure all of them are so accurate, I wonder why the bible doesn't replace our history books. You can hate me, tell me I'm going to go to hell, tell me that jesus is going to appear in my room tonight and show me how it is. Regardless your "bible" was probably "self-made" as well.. by someone who doesn't take into account of historical fact like many storytellers.. hmm.. and in other words.. Stick to watching your movies and watching your Church TV.. Because the bible in no way can be justified and you might as well talk your bible trash to all the other thousands of religons out there.. im happy this is your new life goal....
Im sorry I have offended you, but your shit has offended me.. FUCK YOU.. You people are the reasons we have terrorist attacks, because some stupid asses believe that god allows them to take out anyone who gets in their way.... I'm surprised we don't have some US-Based christian terrorist organization.... Well in this country... Their not considered Terrorists.. They are the KKK and the Neo-Nazis...
xaizio said on March 13, 2004 9:21 PM:
(For future reference: I did NOT see 'The Passion of the Christ'.)
Ok. You make some distinct points in your post. Now let me knock them down one by one.
*"Where do all the good things that happen to me come from?"
John 1:3 - ALL THINGS CAME INTO BEING THROUGH HIM, AND APART FROM HIM NOTHING CAME INTO BEING THAT HAS COME INTO BEING.
*"What takes CARE of outside of us? Who runs the show for everything else in the world or things that we don't directly control."
First of all, you are admitting that someone takes care of us. But who?
1 Peter 15:7 - casting all your CARE upon HIM, for HE CARES for you.
*"God is on your side? Well, it should be that TRUTH is on your side."
Hmm. Wow. For once, you are right.
John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life...
And we all know JESUS is on our side!
*"What ensures my well being?"
Psalm 47:10 - When my father and my mother forsake me, Then the LORD WILL TAKE CARE OF ME.
*"Where can I look to or what can I look to for HOPE."
Romans 15:4 - For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have HOPE.
Romans 15:13 - Now may the God of HOPE fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in HOPE by the power of the Holy Spirit.
*"Ooh, life after Death."
Yes. I like this topic also.
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is DEATH, but the gift of God is ETERNAL LIFE in Christ Jesus our Lord.
*"...so I have something to PRAY to, and to remind myself of the truth of these faiths that I hold.... because, sometimes, I forget."
You do, do you? Well maybe you know in your heart that you made up your 'truths'
Acts 8:22 - Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and PRAY God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.
*"I always envy those people who have a belief in God because they are so much more calmer than me."
Philipians 4:11 - Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be CONTENT.
*"My religion asserts the same truth behind the inner machinations of other religions: that it merely satisfies some neuron configuration patterns in the head that may or may not provide some positive psychological benefits, especially by assuaging confusion regarding ontological questions, such as our origin and our purpose,
If you were born elsewhere, you would believe the Koran as feverently as you believe in the Bible. Since where you were born is a matter of luck, then your choice of a book of worship is arbitrary. Because it is arbitrary, it's not worth taking seriously.
So don't throw the Bible at me unless you can back the Bible."
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with God, and the WORD WAS GOD.
1 Thessalonians 2:13 - For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the WORD OF GOD which you heard from us, you welcomed it NOT AS THE WORD OF MEN, but AS IT IS in TRUTH, the WORD OF GOD, which also effectively works in you who believe.
Matthew 4:4 - But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every WORD that proceeds from the MOUTH OF GOD.' "
I leave you with this:
Matthew 4:10 - Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and HIM ONLY YOU SHALL SERVE.' "
Philip Dhingra said on March 13, 2004 10:14 PM:
xaizo, thank you for taking the time to outline your points.
Your comments, however, do not address my primary contention, that the Bible is not to be held up as truth. Truths are self-evident. The Bible on the other hand is just transcribed text on paper.
Your reasoning about the validity of the Bible is illogical for it relies on circular reasoning. You assert that the Bible is true because the Bible says so. This is truth by fiat, and that's why it's called faith not science.
Your initial discussion does make it clear that I could've turned to existing religious structures to satisfy my desires. However, not all my desires are met with theology: (1) they assert their own truth without proof (2) and other people are members of their groups who believe in its word. I want to be as accurate as I can and I want to set myself apart from those who are not.
RighteousK said on May 16, 2004 10:55 PM:
Well from your last post here is sounds like "you" have just about convinced yourself that "theism" at least has become self-evidence for you?
Philip Dhingra said on May 16, 2004 11:07 PM:
*sigh* yes, ultimately therein lies the uncertainty pickle. We can never be 100% certain about anything, not even certain that we can never be 100% certain.
This is important because what you are suggesting is that I have concocted, a priori, that theism necessarily equals self-evident truths. Your use of quotes around "you" also indicates that I assume an ego that infers all of this. I agree with what I think is your subtle conlusion, that this is totally made up on my part.
However, don't let that distract you from disbelieving in this cultural cake called God. Our world of understanding is totally based ultimately on degrees of uncertainty. Proof, evidence, and argument, gets us varying resolutions of knowledge.
Not every web of invented lies (i.e. God and my own interpretation of God's non-existence) are created equal.
Statements like "we can never be so certain" or any other left-field, overly-reaching attempt at epistemical confusion, to me, is just an expression of the speaker's own lack of conviction and shouldn't be taken seriously.
That we apply strange skepticism selectively further proves the underlying bias of human thinking.
RighteousK said on May 17, 2004 12:00 AM:
Philip, you are almost there! The only misplacement is were you are surrendering. You submit to every other aspect of life, but to that which gave you life. Since your intelligence and thought process is missing the Deity, you make birds and insects superior to you since they don't have to abide by the laws of gravity that you do.
Philip Dhingra said on May 17, 2004 12:33 AM:
RighteousK, this is very interesting, but twisted logic.
RighteousK said on May 17, 2004 7:06 PM:
Oswald Chambers wrote:
. . . you are that one’s slaves whom you obey . . .
The first thing I must be willing to admit when I begin to examine what controls and dominates me is that I am the one responsible for having yielded myself to whatever it may be. If I am a slave to myself, I am to blame because somewhere in the past I yielded to myself. Likewise, if I obey God I do so because at some point in my life I yielded myself to Him.
If a child gives in to selfishness, he will find it to be the most enslaving tyranny on earth. There is no power within the human soul itself that is capable of breaking the bondage of the nature created by yielding. For example, yield for one second to anything in the nature of lust, and although you may hate yourself for having yielded, you become enslaved to that thing. (Remember what lust is—"I must have it now," whether it is the lust of the flesh or the lust of the mind.) No release or escape from it will ever come from any human power, but only through the power of redemption. You must yield yourself in utter humiliation to the only One who can break the dominating power in your life, namely, the Lord Jesus Christ. ". . . He has anointed Me . . . to proclaim liberty to the captives . . ." ( Luke 4:18 and Isaiah 61:1 ).
When you yield to something, you will soon realize the tremendous control it has over you. Even though you say, "Oh, I can give up that habit whenever I like," you will know you can’t. You will find that the habit absolutely dominates you because you willingly yielded to it. It is easy to sing, "He will break every fetter," while at the same time living a life of obvious slavery to yourself. But yielding to Jesus will break every kind of slavery in any person’s life.
Philip you only cheat yourself by yielding to the finite human mind and information that is available in this world. You have to understand that as long as you remain spiritually dead, you will never be satisfied with your 1 dimensional god, and you will only let yourself down over and over again.
Philip Dhingra said on May 17, 2004 7:32 PM:
Colorful words, a coherent theory does not make.
The only useful argument you give is that if I want to get rid of alcoholism or other "vices" that believing in Jesus will help me. Hmm, I wish there was some psychological study to back this up other than some guy's untested hypothesis.
"Yielding" is also a useless parcel for argumentation. You can yield to vice, or I can yield to your advice, or I can yield to avoiding vice. In other words, the "fear of yielding" is invoked here to make me think I'm weak. The only yielding I don't want to do is to yield to some guy abusing language by throwing in such emotionally charged--yet content-wise vacuous--bits like, "infinite, spirituallly dead, never be satisfied, 1 dimensional god, cheat yourself, let yourself down, break every kind of slavery, the true One, he has annointed me"
Maybe this kind of mind-numbing music of words is designed to lullaby other souls, but thankfully, I am tuning this out.
Your words do a disservice by attempting to convince by animating someone lifeless.
RighteouK said on May 17, 2004 8:01 PM:
Ok so you are with me on this point. We both are limited here to mere words. And you can use a light post as your god to help you help you kick your addiction, but you are still left with your unsettled mind, because the things of this world will not fill your appetite because they were not created to suffice. Your Human desire, you will and your pride is too strong.
"The Christians are right; it is Pride that has been the chief cause of misery in every nation and every family since the world began. Other vices may sometimes bring people together; you may find good fellowship and jokes and friendliness among drunken people or unchaste people. But Pride always means enmity - it is enmity. And not only enmity between man and man, but enmity to God." C.S. Lewis
Philip Dhingra said on May 17, 2004 8:31 PM:
I would trust that God would love me enough to give me the tools to find meaning and satisfaction in the here and now and not have to opt out of responsibility with the false hope of a longer life by his side. What arrogance, "those of us who ascend to heaven will be by his throne." What pipe dreams for royalty! What pride the believer must have to think he, this accidental descendent from primates, would deserve a place by the side of the supernatural creator of the universe.
C.S. Lewis? Please, not another pundit spewing out crap you want to hear. The echo-chamber enlarges! I guess he is saying, "Look I agree with you! You, just like me, must have such a worldy understanding that we have FIGURED IT out. Yup, it's Pride that is the chief cause of misery in every nation. yup, I know this because I am a genius like you must be, since you are nodding your head." Making such statements about worldy affairs to infer some universal truth about man either requires divine intervention or is mega-arrogance. I suspect it's the latter.
Let me be C.S. Lewis for a second: it is probably too much pride in one's religion/ideology (Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Communism, and Nazism) that has led to the most misery.
Religion is just another form of tribalism that seeks to separate us into groups while placating some unfortunate spiritual vacuums. It sells us a vision that is easy to swallow without much proof, and if we ask for proof, they say then that belief rests on faith. This keeps us mostly quiet long enough until we are long dead to have finally figured it out.